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Encephalartos forms/localities etc

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Paul Webb, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. Paul Webb

    Paul Webb Well-Known Member

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    Following an Interesting discussion with a friend via email, i would like to ask other members of this forum What their take is on forms or locality plants. where there is variation within a species.

    Lets take the most recognized ones for instance :

    Eugene marais
    Laevifolius
    Ghellinkii
    Freds
    The holy grail of them all apparently is arenarius

    Just to use freds as an example cathcart are blue/grey. kokstad are green. the cones i presume to be the same. both freds but vegatitivly different, also one is more rare thus more expensive.

    Some opinions and thoughts would be great
     
  2. Craig

    Craig Member

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    You'll likely get a different answer from most people on this one, for a number of reasons.

    Firstly, those who have been in the game a very long time, and have not paid attention to books, sales and the internet in recent years, will probably even consider middelburgensis and dyerianus as localities, let alone dolomiticus and hirsutus. Back in 1989, Nature Conservation in the EC only recognised 29 species, 31 if you included manikensis and hildebrandii.

    I, however, quite like the idea of localities, especially if you can distinguish between them. I want to have a nice collection of plants and I quite like the idea of something slightly different from what you often see.

    Unfortunately these more 'unique' varieties have got a good following by sellers and their value has escalated. My first locality plant was a mariepskop laevi, and I'm glad I bought it, because it made me realise there was variation out there.

    I do however worry about the Eugene complex and how mixed this must now be, based on the more recent, last 30 odd years, reclassifications. 30 year old seedlings are fairly big now.
     
  3. nico.breytenbach

    nico.breytenbach Member

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    EM localities
    Palala
    Waterberg
    Marikele
    also heard of Melk rivier
     
  4. Craig

    Craig Member

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    It would be good to make a list of all quotes localities, with pictures would be even better.

    In addition, I've heard of

    Kransberg
    Kranskop
    Thabazimbi
    Sterkrivier / Entabeni
    And Soutrivier, although I'm not sure theses a Soutrivier in the area, is there?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
  5. nico.breytenbach

    nico.breytenbach Member

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    Kranskop is Marilele, as the Kranskop is in the Marikele Reserve
     
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  6. Paul Webb

    Paul Webb Well-Known Member

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    Do these forms justify being split up like We tend to do.
    Do they justify the premium prices they usually command? I accept that some of the locality plants are very rare
    A list of forms/localities with photos would be great
     
  7. Craig

    Craig Member

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    The Eugene Maraisii complex interests me as all the locations I have heard of fall within the Waterberg district, except Soutrivier, which I'm not sure of. Kranskop is another one that I'm not sure of. This is a koppie off the N1, not part of the Kransberg range as such. I've heard of plants from this location and from what I have seen, the leaflets have a number of spines and quite different from other forms. It would be good to get more info on if plants grew on this koppie and what they looked like.

    I thought I'd highlight the localities mentioned above on a map, so we can all see where they are in relation to each other. We can safely assume that some are probably the same locality and other are more distinct. Now we just need habitat or pictures of known locality plants to help distinguish between them.

    E.-eugene-maraisii-localities.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
  8. Paul Webb

    Paul Webb Well-Known Member

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    Very nice map Craig, any idea on scale of It?
     
  9. Craig

    Craig Member

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    Nope, I stupidly thought about that afterwards. I'll find out and add it.
     
  10. Evan vd heyde

    Evan vd heyde Member

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    The palala one are much closer to melkrivier where the palala river starts. There is no mountain range where you made the palala circle. I have seen a kranskop EM in a friends garden and it does have a lot of spines he is 100% sure of localaty. (Got it from a oomie that dug it out 30years ago or someting)
     
  11. Bluelongifolius

    Bluelongifolius Member

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    Interesting subject. Some localities within a species have obvious differences while others may take a discerning eye to differentiate. For me the variation in different localities is of interest especially where differences are obvious. How these differences might change over time if at all, could they lead to subspecies or even diverge enough to become species. I think maintaining records of localities where possible is also of interest because i have an interest in cycads - particularly in understand the big picture the population dynamics, which is sometimes missed.. Would have been of possible value with nibi's to see if there was any locality correlation before they were extracted from habitat. Value - well guess that depends on how sought after a particular plant is, after all many collectors are just that and having something different may be rewarding to them. How much is something worth - as much as someone will pay.
    I think the variation within natalensis is also of interest, particularly after seeing photos of some large specimens at Exclusives.
    Craig your map provided an interesting habitat overview.
    Too bad the book on laevifolius was never published - hopefully not because there was not enough field data to make it worthwhile.
     
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